Please read the disclaimers for this file.
Sometimes games are retired due to high repair and maintenance costs regardless of their popularity. For example, Missile Command's large trackball was known to have problems with pins wearing down, and the HV flyback transformer in Tempest's color vector monitor was notorious for its high failure rate.
Regardless of the reason for its retirement, if you want to play, it'll be up to you to find your game and buy it. Making this process simpler and easier for you was why we wrote this FAQ.
An operator makes money by buying video games for $2500-$3000 and running them for several months. Note that there are exceptions: "Hard Drivin'" machines, for instance, can cost upwards of $10,000 and will be "run" for years...
After the first week of operation, the operator will probably have $200-$400 inside. If a game costs $3200 and the operator gets $200/wk, it takes the operator 16 weeks to make back his original investment. Anything that comes in after that is pure profit.
Unless you can offer the operator more than he will make from a machine over the next three months or so, you can forget it. This is why you never hear of anybody buying new machines from an operator.
After the operator has been running the game for about 18 months or so, the game becomes "old". It doesn't earn much, perhaps only $20-$50/wk or so. Since the operator has limited space in the arcade, the game will be replaced with a new game when an opportunity arises. The new game takes up no more space than the old one, but it earns more MONEY.
Since the operator doesn't know what to do with the old game, it usually gets dragged downstairs or thrown into a warehouse, where it sits unused for several years, waiting to be sold, converted, "parted out", or even taken off to the dump!
Conversion is the process of turning one game into another. Ever wonder why you keep seeing the cabinets for some of your old favourites with the "wrong game" inside 'em? Conversions are the reason.
The more specialized the parts for a game are, the less likely they are to be converted. The control panel for "Stargate", for instance, has zero conversion value. (For those of you who've never seen one, it's unique in the video world, containing a two-directional joystick and six buttons -- IN ADDITION to the one- and two-player start buttons. Moreover, all seven controls were intended to be operated by one at a time...) Games with such proprietary hardware schemes such as this are likely to sit more or less intact until sold or dumped.
At the other end of the scale are JAMMA-based games, in which only the game logic needs to be changed; the controls and other hardware are completely interchangeable. These games are almost always converted quickly and re-introduced to circulation.
The longer a game sits in a warehouse, the more likely it is that parts of it will disappear, either for use in repairs ("parting out") or for use in other conversions. As the game's earning potential approaches zero, or as a lot of its parts disappear, it'll eventually wind up in the dumpster.
Not all of this news is bad news, though. When a game gets converted, for instance, its boards are often left over afterwards. This is why warehouses can be a good source for boards as well as complete games.
We'll get into the risks and rewards of buying boards later on in the FAQ. For now, let's stick to the sale of complete games.
The sale of a game can take two forms:
Again, the MONEY principle is at work. Newer retirees are more likely to command a higher price (more MONEY) when sold, and the operator doesn't want to spend MONEY on buying more warehouse space. You will hear more about the MONEY principle later.
If an operator is unwilling to deal with you because he considers you to be small potatoes, the distributor (who often considers some *OPERATORS* to be small potatoes) is going to be even less amenable to dealing.
It is possible to deal with a distributor, but it's *rare*, and since the techniques used for dealing with operators and distributors are roughly the same, the remainder of this FAQ will concern itself with dealing with operators.
MONEY.
It's a simple rule, but its importance cannot be overstated. MONEY gets you in the door, MONEY talks to the operator, MONEY pays your way when you're inside, and MONEY can even help you get your favourite game away from the operator at the lowest price possible. The strategy section of this FAQ will describe all of this (and more) in detail.
Operators own games for one reason - to make MONEY. If operators were allowed to run porno shows on their games in order to collect quarters, they'd do it. Operators are not interested in the art of game design. They are not interested in the impact that these games have had upon society. And they are certainly not interested in packaging up the boards for your favourite game and sending it halfway across the country - not for you or anyone else. Not when he can make several times as much money by sitting back and letting players pump quarters into his games.
AGAIN, ONLY ONE THING MATTERS TO OPERATORS -- GETTING THE MOST MONEY OUT OF THE GAMES THEY OWN.
Read that sentence again.
You and I, however, only want to wrestle our favourite games away from these "operators". So how do we do it?
Suffice it to say that whatever the answer is, it lies in MONEY. This should be kept in mind as you read the remainder of this FAQ, and should be foremost in your mind whenever you deal with an operator.
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If you're physically present at the arcade, start working your way up through the ranks. Start with the person behind the coin counter or a technician. These "front line" people can give you information on what's sitting down in the basement, and may be able to set you up with the arcade manager.
Often a combined approach (visit an arcade, ask a few questions, get a phone number, go home and call the next day) is the most effective.
The reason for this is that *ANYTHING* the operator could be doing would earn him more money than dealing with a collector who is only likely to spend $100-200. For example, the average operator can take in just as much money in a SINGLE DAY by leaving his phone off the hook and letting people pump quarters into a row of Mortal Kombat machines...
If you are in an arcade, keep in mind that (in most cases) only the operator has the authority to sell you a video game. The arcade managers and technicians generally do not. Although these people are often valuable sources of information, you'll usually have to keep working at it until you reach the "man at the top".
One last note. OPERATORS NEVER RETURN PHONE CALLS. (Well, maybe not "NEVER", but trust us, it's rare...) So if you manage to talk to one and want to continue dealing, you have to take the initiative.
Some operators have also become "jaded" through deals with beginning collectors that never spent much money, expected perfectly-working games, and always wanted warranties. If this is the case for your operator, expect considerable difficulty in overcoming his prejudices if you wish to deal effectively. Sometimes there's just no winning, and you're best off trying your luck elsewhere.
On the other hand, if the operator has no interest in the collector's desired item, the collector can often buy it for next to nothing. The key is NOT TO BRING ATTENTION TO THE DESIRED ITEM. An excellent way of doing this is by including desirable items in bulk buys. Indicate interest in "oh, some old Atari boards", then buy a pile of them, even if half of them are for games you don't really want. The Battlezone board will be much cheaper as a result, and you can probably use the rest of the boards for parts at a later time.
The MONEY principle can also be used to your advantage. If you casually mention that you're willing to "clear out some space" for him by "taking some old games off his hands", you can improve your chances.
After all, the operator is only going to be throwing the junk away in a couple of years. If he sees that he can save on storage or disposal costs by selling you something, you're in business. He makes MONEY from the sale, and he saves MONEY by letting you take the games off his premises.
The higher the potential for making MONEY, the more eager he will be to deal with you. Bulk buys (where you state that you're willing to buy three or more games, for instance), are especially attractive. Making purchases with cash sweetens the deal still further. He can see the MONEY right in front of his face, and he'll want to get his hands on it.
The key is to convince the operator that he wants to sell you the goods. Ask him how much it costs to rent/heat the warehouse. Does he have space problems? Wouldn't it be nice if a dozen machines which he'll never operate again disappeared and several hundred dollars CASH appeared in their place? (A hint: emphasize the word "CASH", should you elect to bring this question to your operator's attention...)
Ask him why he still has those ancient vector monitors around anymore. Ask him if he even has any machines out that could use the parts sitting in the pile in the corner. Why pay to keep a batch of Defender boards when all your Defender cabinets have been converted to other games or scrapped? (A hint: make sure he tells you what is useful *BEFORE* you start rummaging through boards, otherwise his list of useful boards may grow during your conversation...)
The whole idea behind this line of questioning is "Mr. Operator, why don't you let me take these parts/machines that will not make you any MONEY (and which will never be used to repair anything that makes MONEY, and which cost MONEY to store or dispose of) off your hands. I'm even willing to PAY YOU MONEY for the privilege of doing you this favour..."
Once you explain things that way (and especially if you suggest a bulk buy), you should end up getting a great price. Generally, since you can select what to take, about 50% to 75% of the stuff you take will be useful or valuable to you. The rest of it will probably be useful or valuable to the other serious collectors on the net, so you can actually make some money yourself!
The only problem you will encounter is that you have a VERY LIMITED TIME to select all the stuff you will haul off; this is discussed in another question.
For instance, if you go to an operator and spend an hour and a half rummaging through old boards and play-testing half of the machines in the warehouse, take down some prices and then leave, the operator will probably feel that he didn't get enough MONEY for the time he lost in dealing with you. As a result, you will probably not be welcomed back for a second visit, even if you *DO* intend to buy this time.
(To give you an idea of what *WILL* make a visit "worth it" to an operator, about the only times we've heard of collectors having been invited back for a second visit is when they'd purchased over $1500 worth of goods...)
Keep this in mind as you "power-shop". You will NOT be coming back for the things that *YOU* forgot, let alone to pick up something for somebody else. You have only one chance to pull out as much as you can, and you have to do so AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
The reason for this is that operators don't have the time or inclination to worry about things like bounced cheques or credit cards. Cash is simple, direct, *VERY* easy to handle, and gets to the point.
Cash is good. It helps the MONEY principle work for you, rather than against you. Bring plenty of cash with you when you meet with an operator, and make sure that it's visible. A fat wad of twenties in your shirt pocket is probably as good a bargaining tool as any strategy mentioned in this FAQ.
If you're buying in bulk, get as many monitors, boards, and control panels as you can. Here's why.
Once you've gotten your parts home, test them out. If they don't work, don't worry. If you have some knowledge of electronics, you may be able to fix them. Even if you can't, broken boards can still be sold on the net -- there *ARE* people out there who can fix them, so they're still worth having.
If you're really worried about the condition of the boards and are willing to pay extra for working boards, you can still ask for testing, but keep in mind that if you're dealing in large quantities of boards, even the friendliest operator will not have time to test them all. You will therefore still be buying boards of unknown condition. They may not work even if the operator says they will. Moreover, you are buying "as is". If the operator isn't going to let you back in *BUY* a second time, do you really think he'll give you a refund on something that doesn't work?
If you intend to sell extra boards on the net, we recommend that you start small in order to get a taste of all the hassles associated with just breaking even. For instance, everyone will want advice on how to hook up the game, and nobody will want to pay for shipping or handling. You may also have to deal with bouncing cheques and/or COD shipment hassles.
The point is that this isn't a money-making business. If you could make a killing in the "used boards" market, we wouldn't need this FAQ. The operators would be selling used boards by the dozen right in the arcades. On the other hand, don't let this scare you. The authors of this FAQ who have done board deals in the past have always found *SOME* use for most of the goodies they've picked up. Keep your wits about you, use common sense, and you probably won't go wrong.
Note that rare games are an exception. Operators know which games are rare and which games are popular. Unless you are making a *VERY* large bulk buy (20 games or more), the operator will demand more for these games.
If you're buying for a friend, make sure they're willing to pay these costs. Otherwise you'll wind up with what they didn't want to pay to ship -- and what you probably didn't want in the first place (since you were willing to sell and ship it to them in the first place).
If you want to ship the game yourself, the best method is to use a trailer. Trailers cost about $20 to rent, plus the cost of your gas, and unless you own a pickup truck, they are by far the cheapest way to move a video game.
A used trailer will cost about $300 and will probably be the most useful item in a serious collector's inventory. (The second most useful item, by the way, is an "appliance-moving dolly" or "refrigerator dolly"...)
Always keep in mind that boards, monitors, and control panels can be carried in the back seat of your car, so shipping costs are equal to the cost of gas and a few hours of your time.
Also, keep in mind that shipping can be rough on old games. Expect to perform some minor repair work if your game has to be carried over long distances.
Notice that two visits to the operator are required. If operators tend to avoid collectors (because there isn't enough MONEY to make it worth their while), what are the chances that our prospective middleman is going to get a second visit with the operator?
If a dozen other people on the net manage to find the game at the same time, what are the chances that you (the person making the buy) will be the one lucky enough to make the sale? Not very good.
You will either have wasted the operator's time (because you didn't buy the game) and you can forget about dealing with that operator again, or you will be the proud owner of a game which you didn't want in the first place. (Let's face it, if you wanted the game, you would have bought it for yourself and not offered to sell it...)
From the end buyer's perspective:
Wait. I only wanted *ONE* game. Now I've got 10 people who want to sell me the same game and I can only buy one. That means 9 people who won't be very eager to deal with me through the net again because I just cost them their contact with their local operator. And I've also gotta pay shipping and handling (upwards of $150-200) for a game of unknown quality ON TOP OF THE PURCHASE PRICE.
I suppose I could have asked the sellers to send me a picture of the game through the (snail) mail first. But that would have cost more money, taken more time, and annoyed more operators. Again, more people unlikely to deal with me... (to say nothing of the fact that most of the pictures were taken in dark warehouses and I couldn't even see the game...)
From the net's perspective:
The problem with locator lists is that not all copies of the list can be updated simultaneously. The end buyer may forget to take the game off the list - then someone else on the list find the game and get stuck with it. Often times, the end buyer will forget to include the cost of shipping into their calculations - and back out of a deal upon discovering that the cost of shipping exceeds the cost of the game itself.
Even if everybody makes it there on time, if all six people try striking separate deals with the operator, they'll wind up taking too much of his time and the deals will fall through.
If you *DO* manage to organize a group visit, it's a very good idea to make up a joint "grocery list" BEFOREHAND. Everyone involved must be prepared to contribute a certain amount of money for a given game; once this is decided upon, you can all visit the warehouse and offer ONE PRICE FOR THE ENTIRE LIST.
Haggling over individual games during a bulk buy is a very poor way to conduct business. The "one-price-takes-all" strategy will save the operator's time, thereby increasing the chances that you'll be allowed back at some future date - and will also likely result in a better price for the buyers.
There may be an advantage to building your own cabinet it you have an interest in JAMMA-based games. For JAMMA aficionados, a huge cabinet capable of holding 10-20 boards would be of considerable value.
Keep in mind that you can develop both your reputation and contacts any way you like. The collecting community is NOT an "old-boys" network. If you develop a lot of contacts, you'll have a reputation that'll get you more connections, and so on...
If we missed any names in that list (and we probably did), let either Steve or myself know and we'll put you on the list in the next revision.
We'd also like to take a moment to thank those of you who helped us out but wished to remain anonymous. Your contributions to this FAQ were highly valuable to us and will no doubt prove just as valuable to the readership out there...
To our readers: if you liked this FAQ and found it useful, we'd love to hear about it. While you are reading feel free to hit "r" and send us a short note saying if you liked what was in the FAQ and want to see more FAQs like this. Your comments will help us to improve the FAQ and probably sow the seeds for the creation of more useful goodies in the future.
Finally, this FAQ was created by volunteers. While we've done the best that we can to ensure accuracy, some of the information in this FAQ may not apply equally well to all geographic regions. As with anything on the .net, your mileage may vary...
WWW version by Frederic Vecoven
veco@montefiore.ulg.ac.be
Copyright 1993
The authors hereby grant permission to reproduce and distribute this document for personal use, subject to the condition that the document (along with any copyright and disclaimer notices) is not modified in any way.
The opinions expressed within this document are those of the authors only and not necessarily those of their respective employers.
This FAQ was created to assist beginning and established collectors by providing useful information about making deals with the current owners of video games. Because this hobby can involve deals that can be in the $1000s, the reader is advised to use the following information carefully.
This FAQ is provided for informational purposes only. Although the authors have made every effort to provide accurate information, they cannot guarantee the accuracy or usefulness of any of the information contained herein due to the complexity of the issues involved.
The authors take no responsibility for anything arising as a result of anyone using the information provided in this FAQ, and the reader hereby absolves the authors of any and all liability arising from any activities resulting from the use of any information contained herein.